http://kftplan.com.au/comment/index BangTheTable.com - Providing the community and government with a new way to engage in public policy debate http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-proposed-urban-design-framework-for-your-township-reflects-how-you-would-like-your-community-to-look-in-the-future-is-there-anything-that-you-would-change Ric Stubbings said "The comments relate to the Flowerdale aspects of the KFT Plan Do you think the vision and directions in the Draft Plan reflect your aspirations for your community? No, I feel the plan is not a plan but a statement that we don’t need a plan as every thing is just as we want it. I agree with that in some respect but I feel that the Flowerdale needs a plan to make it a vibrant community into the future. I would suspect that our population is only half of what it was before the fire I worry that we have all this fantastic infrastructure in the pipeline but its not going to be sustainable unless we can attract people back into our community and particularly of a young age demographic. To bring people back to flowerdale it is important to provide employment opportunities and life style land available in fire safe and flood safe positions. Employment In the past Flowerdale has been attractive to young families with inexpensive land prices and a easy commuter distance to the employment opportunities in Melbourne. In the future as car based commutering becomes less affordable, I think we need to foster local employment to make our community more resilient. Although there are opportunities in Agribusiness but why not also look at a some re-zoning to allow a limited commercial and business opportunities. We have such a large volume of weekend traffic traveling through our valley but only two businesses tapping into this tourist trade. Land for resettlement in the safer areas Item 4.1 of the KFT Plan is “Provide compact and distinctive town centres and community hubs that reinforce township identity.” but this is an opportunity lost in the draft plan. Our town community hub is shown as the Flowerdale Hall area . The only business in there is the hotel and the population center is 10km away. We have the opportunity to relocated our population center to our community hub area with a tweaking on the town planning zones without changing the aesthetic values of our community. The additional land that could be looked at for extending the rural living zone is between the hazeldene store and just past the Hotel. The linking of Moores Rd and Broome Rd would open up some livable “off the main rd” building sites. Or the same could be said of the Collins Road area. Keeping in mind that any extension of th Rural Living Zone should not extent to the fertile flood plains of the King Parrot Creek that could restrict any agri-business developments. There is plenty of more marginal agricultural land in the vicinity of our Community hub (School, Pub, Hall Area ) that is currently zoned farm zone that could be rural living, I feel we should have an “compact and distinctive town centres and community hubs that reinforce township identity" without loosing the rural feel and all the other reasons why we love living in our valley " 2011-04-28 08:24:57 +1000 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community HCAG said "Well spoken, Finally. You have captured what a lot thought and were afraid to say. We agree with you wholeheartedly." 2011-04-17 13:50:59 +1000 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community Finally said "Firstly, the Hazeldene-Flowerdale vote, conducted by MSC, only had a 29% response rate, with 116 votes being returned from Hazeldene (and 44 from Flowerdale). This vote clearly did not have the community's support. If it did - complacency aside - we would have seen more votes from Hazeldene Households. The KFT has invited the community to a non-biased, non-VBRRA event, at which their voices could be and were heard. Secondly, just because the plan includes Hazeldene and Flowerdale, it doesn't mean that the people have to attend meetings at Flowerdale. We chose not to attend at Flowerdale after attending one there which, as the summary of the meeting showed, did not accurately reflect what was decided on and/or discussed. We did attend several of the sessions, though, choosing to attend at other venues within the Kinglake Ranges, as did other people from both Hazeldene and Flowerdale. . Up until now, all that has happened in the King Parrot Valley was pre-ordained by a minority, prior to people returning and/or when people were still "shell shocked and voiceless", with support being given to the plan and subsequent decisions, by a very small percentage of the community. The KFT plan was developed and commenced when more people were back and should have been the over-riding consideration in developing the Hazeldene-Flowerdale area, with all other developments being considered but not decided on and/or commenced until this plan was finalised and, only then, if considered appropriately placed within the community. If this had happened, we would not see what we are seeing now, which is not truly representative of a strategically planned community of two neighbouring towns, which provides a vision for the future, which has the capacity to respond to local challenges and opportunities, and which has been based on evidence, a sense of local distinctiveness and community derived objectives, within the overall framework of local and regional strategies, and state policies. " 2011-04-14 07:15:37 +1000 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-dont-you-like-about-the-proposed-ideasdirections-for-your-community whiskers said "Sam, The problem with this whole framework business was that initially people were told to come to the meetings so that your ideas for bettering the community could be aired. Following the second meeting at Kinglake, it became apparent that those in the community with opinions other than those of the organisers were not being notified of the further meetings. The well intentioned process seems to have gone astray somewhere along the way." 2011-04-11 08:10:01 +1000 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-proposed-urban-design-framework-for-your-township-reflects-how-you-would-like-your-community-to-look-in-the-future-is-there-anything-that-you-would-change King Parrot said "If any residential devlopment is to go ahead it is essential that new residential development complements the character of the region, strong caveats need to be considered and enforced by council. Consideration should also be given to the minimum size blocks on any subdivision, (2, 5 or 7 acre blocks?) we need to maintain the rural feel of the area. I am concerned that there insufficient existing infastructure and demand to support any development in Kinglake Central, without that demand why push it, can the funds be used to develop existing services and any proposed development deferred until demand grows? " 2011-03-31 16:06:38 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community Sam said "How can you say this plan offers relief from the threat of urban development??? When it proposes to put 280 homes in a small stretch of land in Kinglake Central? On some of the most productive land in the area." 2011-03-17 16:43:29 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community Sam said "No everyone I tell about the proposed housing estate in Kinglake Central can't understand it as they say there are so many blocks and houses that are for sale that no one wants already in Kinglake, so why build more? Who would want to move to the country and live in an urban sprawl??? Such densely populated housing estates breed boredom in kids especially when they are situated so far from shops and services, so what will they do for fun in Kinglake Central? Look up any old Mountain Monthlys in the police reports where there is densely populated areas there is always lots of trouble, but in Kinglake Central it is always 'nil reports' I bet that will change.." 2011-03-17 16:40:06 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-is-your-vision-for-your-community-in-the-future Sam said "My vision for Kinglake Central is a rural one. We are not part of Kinglake or Pheasant Creek or Kinglake West. People choose to live here because it is not a town. If the council goes ahead with rezoning of this area they will destroy our community. Why not build houses where there already is a town? Do we really need another town in the Kinglake Ranges? " 2011-03-17 16:31:23 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-dont-you-like-about-the-proposed-ideasdirections-for-your-community Sam said "I don't like that at the last community forum in Kinglake last year, there was overwhelming public outrage for housing and rezoning in Kinglake Central, but this seems to have been ignored by the council in the latest framework, and they have gone ahead with rezoning but now on a bigger scale! Those of us in Kinglake Central would like to know who in VBRAA(?) is from Kinglake Central? making decisions that will affect our lives? If again many people oppose this rezoning will at the community forums and through submissions will this again be ignored? Will Matt Parsons again not listen to reason?" 2011-03-17 16:19:02 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-do-you-value-most-about-kinglake-and-kinglake-central-what-are-the-opportunities-and-challenges-for-the-future keep kinglake central rural said "I value most about my home in Kinglake Central is that it remains a rural area where we border state and national parks. That it does not medge into pheasant creek and kinglake because of sub-divisions. That we value agriculture and horticultural ventures. I want to continue to have that good feeling I have when the main road changes into 100km an hour and the mountain grey gums tower over me and I turn into Extons Road and look out towards Toolangi and see glorious vistas then back towards the Extons property and see rolling paddocks NOT row after row of houses and cars. NO REZONING of Kinglake Central." 2011-03-16 14:04:00 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-is-your-vision-for-your-community-in-the-future keep kinglake central rural said "It is Kinglake Central not middle kinglake." 2011-03-16 13:53:44 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-do-you-like-about-the-proposed-ideasdirections-for-your-community keep kinglake central rural said "We were and are a rural small country town surrouded by National Parks why do you want to make us look like a suburb?" 2011-03-16 13:49:36 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/in-your-view-does-the-potential-development-framework-strengthen-the-sustainability-of-the-region-by-preserving-environmental-values-and-enhancing-community-safety keep kinglake central rural said "The potential development framework does not strengthen the sustainability of the region by preserving environmental values and enhancing community safety. By building 280 new homes in Kinglake Central it destroys corridors that animals use between forests in that area. The look and feel of the area is destroyed. Safety - what a joke get over 1000 people out of this area in a fire - not possible, more people died in Kinglake Central than any other areas in the Kinglake ranges. We saved our house in Kinglake Central by having unlimited water from dam and many tanks, we used over 10,000 litres on our house before the fire hit, if we hadn't we would have lost our house. The storys are similar from our neighbours. How are these 280 homes going to be defended in a fire they will only have house tanks from rainwater??? in small urban blocks???" 2011-03-16 13:46:15 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/which-ideas-do-you-think-should-be-given-priority FlowerdaleResident said "Priority should be given to fixing up things that were affected from bushfires first not everything else proposed. Make our towns back to close as normal as possible pre fires. Make sure we don't turn into another urban sprawl and protect what we have already got." 2011-03-16 08:49:03 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-dont-you-like-about-the-proposed-ideasdirections-for-your-community FlowerdaleResident said "Proposed ideas/directions only if you are in the know how to change everything seems only a few get the say. So no don't like much of it all we live in the country for a reason we don't want urban sprawl and quite happy to travel for services we need if you live here thats what you get used to. Kinglake Township isn't the centre of the universe as I'd never go there for services anyhow. What is happening is several so called want to be leaders are calling the shots trying to make it a statelite city and if you listen to the real people of the community even the elders of all towns we don't want it." 2011-03-16 08:46:36 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-do-you-like-about-the-proposed-ideasdirections-for-your-community FlowerdaleResident said "Steve couldn't agree more. We are two years on from fires and what has been fixed not much all govt agencies are suppose to have funding for repairs but no still not done. How does it take that long to fix major roads, walking paths & clean up creeks etc. " 2011-03-16 08:42:55 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/are-there-any-ideas-missing-that-you-would-like-to-see-included FlowerdaleResident said "Yes that we are all seperate communities rather than inferring that most of us use businesses etc in Kinglake as I certainly don't & never will. It seems its all centred around Kinglake maybe people with their own agendas got their way once again which has been happening since the bushfires. Amazing who gets listened to but not the general community. So yes you need to work on including rest of communities and what was discussed at forums and from what I can see most hasn't happened." 2011-03-15 20:02:52 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community FlowerdaleResident said "After sitting on many of the forums which have taken place in all areas some have been adhered to others not. Like changing our Sign "Welcome to Hazeldene" since when was that on the agenda we are "Flowerdale" and just been through all that with MSC trying to get it changed back after it was seperated many years ago without residents knowing. Out of Recovery Forums the community wanted it changed back so obviously the people doing this planning haven't listened or bothered to find out what community aspirations are this is a prime example. So no we don't want it changed & want it corrected by the planning people & surely MSC would have known this considering they have input also. So listen to what people want instead of doing whatever like we are urban we never will be. Also with streetscape how is that ever going to work at Kinglake Township where shops are maybe but the rest of the areas no. Considering Govt Agencies have never cleaned up side of roads properly especially where people live & need to get onto main roads which you can't see out off nearly causing accidents how is this possible? Also query on where some of the creeks you talk about are eg: Wombat creek does it exist to my knowledge no or unless its a newly created one. At least get the roads & creek names right before publishing. It seems that all the ideas are coming from top end of Kinglake and not taking into account any of the other towns. At meetings I've attended we all wanted our own and Flowerdale certainly doesn't fit into the equation of Kinglake totally different communities, townships and culture but it seems we've just been forgotten about once again & have to do what Kinglake wants and this does not include Kinglake West/Pheasant Creek as they don't seem to have a say either all amenties going to Kinglake the centre of the universe and that is not was discussed at public forums. So no there is alot more work to be done as far as i'm concerned to correct mistakes and listen to what communities wanted in first place instead of just planners & MSC deciding themselves." 2011-03-15 20:00:14 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/in-your-view-does-the-potential-development-framework-strengthen-the-sustainability-of-the-region-by-preserving-environmental-values-and-enhancing-community-safety FlowerdaleResident said "Lots of things mentioned such as developing Kinglake Central how is that protecting the environment. What about the animals which we've lost too many in fires let alone if you develop where will they live. Another point around that area there are underground springs which feed into the creeks so if you develop & disturb them won't the creeks end up not flowing or as fast. Also as we live around bush why develop further as more population means more people trying to escape fires if it happens again so how many more deaths will occur so no safety has been taken into consideration at all. So no developing any more of the areas as most of live here for reason not to see more mernda villages in the area. Don't fix what nots broken." 2011-03-15 19:49:31 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/are-there-any-ideas-missing-that-you-would-like-to-see-included Adam_Wolf74 said "Secondary school for Kinglake / Kinglake Central" 2011-03-11 10:14:42 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-proposed-urban-design-framework-for-your-township-reflects-how-you-would-like-your-community-to-look-in-the-future-is-there-anything-that-you-would-change keep kinglake central rural said "My family moved to Kinglake Central to live and work in a rural setting. We had no desire to live in an urban environment. The housing development on Extons Road Kinglake Central of 250 houses show a lack of understanding of our area, the community and the environment. With over 1000 people potentially moving into Extons Road native animals such as the highly rare spotted quoll which is regularly spotted and heard down powers rd (approx 100 metres from proposed housing development) will be in danger of extinction is these parts, because of an increase in dogs and cats and general habitat destruction. The proposed housing develoment site is on prime farming land some of the best in Victoria. Many farmers would love the opportunity for such rich soil and to just tear it up into housing blocks is criminal. The water table under the housing development feeds many of the springs in the region and who can say predict if this will be affected by the effluent of 250 houses. Also the entire look and feel of our region will be destroyed. As you drive past Kinglake West there is lots of housing - Pheasant Creek lots of housing and Industrial areas - Kinglake Central rural living open pastures and then Kinglake with lots of housing. Why does the whole of Kinglake ranges have to be housing??? There is little open space left. We don't want to become like Mernda and other outlining towns. Who is making these decisions?? not anyone from Kinglake Central!" 2011-03-11 09:32:13 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community spike said "not sure what your point is Steve. My point is that the farmland remaining is valuable and potentially highly productive despite the activities (or lack of) of some current custodians. Do you want to see the farmland rezoned for residential use?" 2011-02-25 21:10:11 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community steve said "who is farming up here these days. selling our water is that farming? " 2011-02-25 10:12:12 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/in-your-view-does-the-potential-development-framework-strengthen-the-sustainability-of-the-region-by-preserving-environmental-values-and-enhancing-community-safety steve said "not at all. certain groups are looking after their own interests again." 2011-02-25 10:05:31 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-do-you-like-about-the-proposed-ideasdirections-for-your-community steve said "not much i think you have all lost the plot before change why not fix what we have." 2011-02-25 10:02:14 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-proposed-urban-design-framework-for-your-township-reflects-how-you-would-like-your-community-to-look-in-the-future-is-there-anything-that-you-would-change steve said "no glenburn rd should be residential on both sides to old glenburn rd. then the shire would have to fix glenburn rd. yeh right as much chance of that as we have of seeing our mayor doing anything but get his photo taken." 2011-02-25 09:59:09 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-proposed-urban-design-framework-for-your-township-reflects-how-you-would-like-your-community-to-look-in-the-future-is-there-anything-that-you-would-change HIM said ""urban design" ?? Please !! I and my family chose to live in the area for its beauty and raggedness and not concrete sprawl with buildings out of place resembling sub urban designs. Besides, who pays for all that ? Your website announces 190 mil to spent, maybe funded by councillors out of theirs super ?? Ha Ha. Please refrain from reaching into pockets of the ratepayers just to show that you do something, please!! Just in case you not familiar with the term "Urban Design" A cult consisting of college educated civic engineering enthusiasts, who usually work for architects, developers, or politicians, who belive the answer to all social ills is through the destruction of classic or historical buildings and (affordable) spaces, to be replaced with a modern (or post-modern) design of buildings, neighborhoods, and public spaces that are high rent, unaffordable, but considered utopian by their proponents. Upon challenging these notions on the basis of historical preservation, or as a critque against gentirfication, epthets like "stuck in the past" and "Republican" are offered ad hominum. " 2011-02-24 09:32:37 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/what-valuescharacter-do-we-need-to-protect-support-and-enhance-in-the-future spike said "'sustainable' can have so many meanings. For Murrindindi Shire it might fundamentally mean increasing rate revenue, and further development of the Kinglake ranges has always appeared to be the only way for the Shire to achieve this. But this is surely a question of governance. Would the same pressures be in play if we were part of the Whittlesea or Nillumbik Shires,both with an already substantial rate-base. The Ranges might well be considered their "jewel in the crown", and diligently protected from development. I recall that there was a submission from Whittlesea Shire planning dept. on the Kinglake/Flowerdale Strategy, which was strongly against the rezoning of farmland for residential subdivision. The issue of block size is really difficult, as smaller lot sizes mean less farmland is lost forever. Many of us were in favour of 2ha minimum lot sizes for Kinglake West/ Pheasant Creek, but this means an enormous loss of valuable and highly versatile farmland. I think the current KFT Draft plan is really good, what do you think?" 2011-02-17 17:22:11 +1100 http://kftplan.com.au/topic/do-you-think-the-vision-and-directions-in-the-draft-plan-reflect-your-aspirations-for-your-community spike said "Absolutely delighted with the rational and measured overall character of the plan. If implemented successfully, community aspirations will be, at last, well served. Hope that this plan finally encourages a broader recognition of the environmental significance of the Kinglake Ranges for the local community, and for Melbourne. There are many in this community who have been worried for years that the rapid urban development through the northern suburbs would inevitably spread to the Kinglake Ranges and destroy forever our farmland, and our natural environment This plan offers relief from that threat. Sincere thanks for the enlightened attitude of your team, and to my neighbours in Kinglake/Flowerdale/and Toolangi for their input." 2011-02-16 10:31:58 +1100